Independent Podcasters, Part Two: Storytelling
Plus... Podcast controversy at NBA Finals and a song from 1985 is back in the charts
This week, we’re interviewing Zuri Berry, a former Boston Herald deputy managing editor who has started ZMC Podcasts, a company that “focuses on high-quality audio storytelling.” I strongly believe that the best podcasts tell a story, and Zuri’s advice to clients is right in line with that philosophy. ZMC Podcasts goes beyond the usual production house, working with clients on their marketing and distribution strategies, among other offerings.
I interviewed Zuri by email.
Zuri Berry (Photo Courtesy of Same)
You focus on storytelling, even providing storytelling insights in your newsletter. Why are stories so important in a podcast?
We're at a point now where there are more than two million podcasts. More than half a million of those are active. So for podcasters to really stand out, they have to create compelling content. For those of us who aren't celebrities or aren't undoubtedly charismatic, the easiest way to distinguish yourself is by crafting good stories. I would argue that there are too many poorly produced interviews and solo podcasts, many of which could be helped simply by editing and revising their content to fit storytelling structures. Of course, there's a lot more that goes into it. But the result is that better stories lead to better engagement, connections, empathy, and understanding. Storytelling is critical to creating a more engaged and connected world, and I think that's important.
Beyond that, the other reason I focus on storytelling, in particular, is because there are a wealth of people who focus primarily on the how-tos of podcasting (equipment, setup, production, advertising, etc.). Even for those who work in the podcasting space, many don't focus on storytelling. There is less interest in the craft and more interest in these other aspects. So I want to bridge that gap to help improve the overall audio space.
You wrote about how podcasting should be seen as a part of a company marketing and branding effort. Can you expand on that?
Yes. Many organizations and individual content creators have jumped into the podcasting space as an extension of their content marketing efforts. And that's not surprising. There's a ton of research out, most explicitly from the BBC, that suggests a strong correlation between an organization's podcast and an increase in brand awareness, increased brand engagement, and increased purchase intent. (The same can be said of podcasting advertising, which Nielsen just reported on last month.)
It's important to understand that a podcast is not a top-of-the-funnel activity for a company's marketing efforts. Most branded podcasts don't get hundreds of thousands of downloads or seek advertising opportunities. Instead, a branded podcast serves as an engagement tool for an organization's stakeholders. Those stakeholders include employees, investors, industry peers, current and potential customers, and more. So it's crucial for organizations to view branded podcasts as a tool to engage people they've already identified in their audience, cultivate those stakeholders, and establish themselves as industry leaders. The end goal is to increase brand awareness and favorability.
The other piece of this is that many content marketers have found success in repurposing content. Podcasts can be used as videos, audio and transcripts can be posted on websites, and that content can be ported to blog posts, newsletters, and social media. So it's an excellent way to supercharge your content marketing.
Prior to opening your own shop, you worked at The Boston Herald. How is it different working for yourself and are you glad you made the jump?
I'm still getting adjusted. The two big differences for me are working from home and how I hold myself accountable for my own goals. The novelty of a home office has pretty much worn off. So I may find myself in a coworking space in the future. And I think a lot about how I stay motivated, who I'm working for, and the tasks I have that are piling up. I don't have deadlines anymore (at least not in the newspaper sense). It took me a while to realize that deadlines are more like guidelines for myself and my clients. They keep you on track, but nobody breaks a sweat if you miss them. That's a big difference for people like you and me, who are accustomed to multiple hard deadlines per day. But I am happy that I'm working for myself. There are a lot of intangible benefits. The learning curve is steep, but that's added to my enjoyment. I feel challenged in a way that I had never been before, and I'm thankful for that.
It's a big risk, opening a "pod shop." Has it paid off?
Yes, absolutely. The freedom to move about as I please, take on projects that I want, and the opportunity to work with amazing people has been worth it. I think ownership provides a sort of peace of mind, and that has been important, too. I'm at a point in my life where I want to be able to pick and choose who I work with, what kind of culture I want to create, and live out my values. And from a revenue basis, it's growing. Through the first five months of this year, I've already surpassed last year's revenue total. But I have a long way to go before all aspects of the business are realized, and I'm hitting my goals.
What podcasts that you don't produce do you enjoy?
I'm still a big news junkie. So I listen to an abnormal amount of news podcasts like “The Journal” from The Wall Street Journal and Gimlet. They do great editing daily, so I listen to practically every episode. I also love The Guardian's “Today in Focus.” They inspire me to create better audio every time I listen to them. And then Bloomberg's “The Pay Check,” which has done some compelling work over the past three seasons. In terms of storytelling and reporting, I loved “Gangster Capitalism” from C13 Originals, which last year did a deep dive into Liberty University and the Fallwells.
Right now, I'm listening to “Suave” from Futuro Studios/PRX about a man who was sentenced to life in prison as a juvenile. It's really emotional. It won the Pulitzer Prize for Audio Reporting, so you know it's amazing.
For the geeks in the crowd: Tell us about your setup.
I'm set up in my home office with a Rodecaster pro, a mic arm, and several microphones I swap in and out. I have the Shure MV7, the Samson Q2U, and the Zoom ZDM-1. I use the Audio-Technica ATH-M50x monitoring headphones, which I love. I'm not in a treated room, so I grab a big purple blanket to cover myself and the microphone whenever I record. (ED NOTE: Whatever it takes to dampen the sound. This is a great idea.) And then, for software, I'm using Descript, Audition, and Hindenburg Journalist (in that order). I love Descript for a range of reasons, but probably number one is that it helps me visualize the storytelling in each episode I produce. I use Audition for more advanced mixing and clean-up.
Is there anything else we should know?
Two things: 1) Bad audio hurts your brand! It doesn't cost much to produce listenable audio. So invest in your equipment and, if necessary, invest in a producer. 2) For prospective podcasters, you'll benefit more from studying screenwriting than podcasting how-tos. Storytelling matters!
Thanks to Zuri for taking the time to share his thoughts. My takeaways: Storytelling matters, quality is critical, and podcasts can be an effective part of a marketing campaign.
NEWS AND NOTES
PODCAST CONTROVERSY AT NBA FINALS: The NBA Finals are underway and are an exciting matchup between apparently even teams. As of this publication, the Boston Celtics are tied at 2-2 with the Golden State Steph Currys Warriors. Draymond Green, power forward for the Warriors, has a self-titled podcast (Spotify, Apple) where he discusses, frankly, his thoughts on his play and the games. Well, it appears the opposition is listening and taking notes.
Bleacher Report writes that, while there’s only so much you can learn from a podcast - players also go on the radio - having every bit of opposition intel helps:
Following a Game 1 Warriors loss in which White, Smart and Horford shot 15-of-23 from distance, Green said on his podcast there would be changes for Game 2. He spoke of wanting to contest those shooters more.
Yes, that’s an obvious adjustment that Boston staffers would have prepared for, but being prepared for an outcome is far different from expecting it. The Warriors could have simply decided to dare White, Smart and Horford to make lightning strike Chase Center twice.
The other problem with a self-hosted podcast is that you don’t hold yourself accountable for problems on the floor. Green was pulled early in game four for performing poorly. Any podcast about Green would lead with that. But Green’s podcast about the game barely touched on it, and didn’t discuss his obvious anger at the move at all.
TWITTER SLOW TO REMOVE SEXIST, RACIST TWEETS AIMED AT VP HARRIS: It will likely not be a surprise to you that Vice President Kamala Harris gets a large share of racist and sexist tweets. A new report from BotSentinel finds that Twitter is slow to remove these tweets or punish the offenders. CBS News Reporters Dan Patterson and Musadiq Bidar write that Harris received more than 4,000 such tweets in the first five months of 2022, but Twitter hasn’t exactly taken hasty measures when the complaints rolled in:
"All of those tweets violated their rules and policy when you look at them, and we made that available in the report," Christopher Bouzy, the founder of Bot Sentinel, told CBS News. "It shows manipulated photos, for example, of her in lewd sex acts. I mean, that's a no-brainer right there, but it came back that it did not violate their policies."
A Twitter spokesperson admitted to Patterson that the company’s review of the offending tweets was wrong and mistaken.
How many times do we have to go through this? Boston has its first Asian/female mayor, and just search “Mayor Michelle Wu” to see the garbage sent to her. Twitter isn’t trying hard enough to clean up its act.
TRUMP MEDIA ANNOUNCES OWN “PLUS” CHANNEL: The Trump Media and Technology Group (TMTG), whose “Truth Social” Twitter clone is not succeeding as many of his fans had hoped, is announcing a digital channel, TMTG+. It bills itself as “the right wing’s answer to Netflix and Disney+” and a “non-woke” channel that will carry shows that were “cancelled.” (From the context, I take it they mean shows that were pulled because of offensive behavior or content, not low ratings.) Per Deadline: TMTG+ says it “will not censor the creators of entertainment for TMTG+, nor will it insist that its programming push some particular political ideology.”
LINKS AND LIKES
PODCASTS: Here are the links to the podcasts Zuri Berry recommended in his interview above: “The Journal” (Spotify, Apple, Sticher), “Today in Focus” (Spotify, Apple, Sticher), “The Pay Check” (Spotify, Apple, Sticher), “Gangster Capitalism” (Spotify, Apple, Sticher) and “Suave” (Spotify, Apple, Sticher).
If there’s a podcast you think people should know about, hit the button below and leave a comment.
MUSIC:
TOP SPOTIFY SONG? IT’S 36 YEARS OLD: In the summer of 1986, The Beatles’ 1964 version of “Twist and Shout” re-entered the Billboard Hot 100 charts, peaking at number 26. It was thanks to the famous “parade scene” from “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off” that a new generation discovered the classic John Lennon throat-shredder 22 years after its release. Now, more than 36 years after it dropped, a song by Kate Bush is getting a similar, media-inspired rebound.
Bush’s 1985 song “Running Up That Hill” features prominently in the just-released fourth season of Netflix’s “Stranger Things,” which takes place in the ‘80s. As with “Twist and Shout,” “Running Up That Hill” has found a new generation of fans, and is the most-played song worldwide on Spotify. As of this writing, it’s number two on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100, giving Bush her first top-ten hit, which is just crazy for an artist of her caliber.
Bush has been eligible on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ballot three times, but has not come close in the voting. This has been a shame, because she is a household name in Britain, and is considered highly influential to a generation of women singer/songwriters. Perhaps this fortuitous re-appearance in the charts will give people a reminder of her outstanding work and they’ll vote for her for next year’s R&RHOF class.
COMMERCE:
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We will be offering more in the weeks ahead including extra newsletters, longer interviews, and the ability to text me at any time. I will also offer consults to those who are either considering podcasting or who are already podcasting but would like advice. I know there are a lot of requests for paid subscriptions out there: This one will make this worth your money. I’m offering a charter subscriber special of $30/year, a $10 savings, if you pay for the year in advance. You can become a paid subscriber and cancel after a week if you’re not satisfied.
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Oh, heck. Here’s an old and terrifying ad. I like these too much not to include them. The Soda Pop Board of America has a recommendation for our babies: